Posted in: Movies, TV | Tagged: arrow, Birds of Prey, Comics, dc comics, entertainment, Joseph Illidge, katana, tv

Arrow Talk With Former Birds Of Prey Editor Joe Illidge

By Nikolai Fomich

Joseph Illidge, author, columnist, and public speaker, knows Dinah Laurel Lance well – after all, he edited the character during the early days of Chuck Dixon's Birds of Prey run. Joe and I sat down to chat about the character's Arrow-incarnation, the show's growing cast of characters, and what we hope to see.

 [Black Canary]

Nikolai Fomich: Arrow follows the journey of Oliver Queen from playboy to shipwreck survivor to vigilante to hero, but another character that we've seen transform over the course of the show's three seasons is Laurel Lance. 

The ways in which the writers have been able to reimagine the character to suit their story while maintaining aspects of her comic book history is impressive. Like her comic book counterpart, Arrow's Dinah/Laurel is a legacy character, inspired by a close family member to don the mantle of Canary/Black Canary – her mother in the comics and her sister in the show. I'm happy they were able to maintain the legacy aspect of the character. What are your thoughts on Laurel's journey so far?

Joe Illidge: At the very least, Laurel's road to becoming the Canary is impressive because it's earned. Laurel has gone through a personal crucible of grief, anger, disillusionment, addiction, and now grief again, over the span of two and a half seasons. The same way that you can't watch the final episode of Breaking Bad and say that you knew the Walter White in the first episode had it in him to become that person, I stopped believing that Laurel would inevitably become the superhero from DC's Birds of Prey monthly comic book.

I'm glad I was wrong, because Dinah Lance, the Black Canary, was one of my favorite female superheroes before and while I was editor of the comic book series she starred in, so I want to see how long it takes Laurel to become that person, become that formidable a person and self-assured in her ability to be a crime fighter.

Since the comic book version of Black Canary was also forged through loss and the personal realization that fighting within government organizations was not enough to ensure justice was done, in that way the comic book and television versions are perfectly in synch.

NF: Since her inception, Canary has largely been a supporting character – in Flash Comics and All Star Comics in the 1940's and in Justice League of America, The Brave and the Bold, and various Green Arrow stories in the 1970's and 1980's. It wasn't until Birds of Prey that Dinah was the star of a book. And it's only now, in season three, that we're seeing Arrow's Dinah Laurel Lance become more than a supporting character.

I think moving Laurel away from Ollie throughout the course of the show has forced the writers to develop her character more fully, and I imagine the characters will have matured quite a bit by the time they reconnect.

JI: Agreed. Throughout Black Canary's history in the comic books, her relationship with Oliver Queen was more of a savior/damsel-in-distress disguised as an independently capable superhero kind of dynamic. It took a while for the effects of the feminist movement to catch up with Black Canary the way it did with Wonder Woman. When Black Canary went through a personal trial and emerged stronger, then received her first ongoing comic book series, that's when she started to stand on her own two feet, literally and figuratively.

Having Laurel and Oliver on equal ground in terms of their goals and sense of independence, after Laurel spent a good deal of time partially defining herself in relation to her feelings about him…it's great, and speaks to how the Arrow writers develop interesting female characters.

NF: I wonder if Arrow will eventually have Laurel team-up with Felicity, mirroring the duo of Black Canary and Oracle we saw in Birds of Prey. It'd be great if the writers could create a similar kind of dynamic between those two characters like the one we saw with Dinah and Babs in the comics.

JI: Even if that's not their intent, the writers have certainly set that up in the "Midnight City" episode. I'd love to see it.

The original Birds of Prey editor, Jordan B. Gorfinkel, came up with the idea to put Black Canary together with a mission commander in Oracle. The two went from being allies to great friends, and we see the same starting to happen with Felicity and Laurel. They're bound by grief, earlier feelings of hopelessness, and eventually Felicity's resolve empowered Laurel to regain and strengthen her own.

A good, strong platonic relationship between two women is something Arrow could use, so a Laurel/Felicity team would be a great by-product of this third season.

 [Black Canary by Butch Guice, from Birds of Prey #16]

NF: I totally agree. The showrunners of Arrow didn't go the fishnet route with the character design. During your editorship on Birds of Prey, we saw Black Canary make the switch to pants – how did that come about and why?

JI: It's funny, because credit goes to (now Valiant's Ninjak) artist Butch Guice and his wife Julie in terms of Black Canary's look during my time as the Birds of Prey editor.

I brought Butch on board as the regular artist to up the visual ante on the book's drama since the second "season" of Birds of Prey was going to be more serious, and he had the artistic intuition to change up the character's outfit from time to time. Women don't wear the same style day in, day out. They shake it up for various reasons, and Black Canary did the same in terms of her costume.

Butch's wife, Julie, was the fashion consultant in terms of the character's civilian fashion and hairstyles, and I just loved getting that two-for-one, married couple input on the series.

I love Laurel's full-body costume on Arrow because, really, why in the hell would you run around at night with bare legs, when that part of the outfit could be used to hold accessories? That and keep your legs warm. It's a functional uniform, and not spandex.

NF: Any thoughts on the diversity we've seen on Arrow? I think Diggle is a great addition to the Green Arrow mythos. Ollie has always had a bit of a dearth when it comes to supporting characters – which is part of the reason I feel like Shado and Eddie Fyers were wasted.

JL: I'd like the casting director of Arrow to become a high-ranking official at DC Comics, because the level of ethnic diversity in the supporting and recurring cast, the love affair between Ra's al Ghul's daughter Nyssa and Laurel's (now deceased) sister Sarah, those factors helped influence me to put Arrow on my radar. I'd like to see more of that in the monthly DC Comics lineup, along with more writers of color.

Diggle's great. I know Andy Diggle, the Green Arrow: Year One writer after whom John Diggle was named. Andy's a great guy, and it's a respectful testament to the impact of his story that a fictional namesake was born. Now that a parallel Diggle character is in the Green Arrow monthly DC Comics series, things have gone beautifully full circle.

I do agree that Shado wasn't used to her full potential on Arrow, but we all know she made quite the impact.

NF: This season we've seen not only the beginnings of Black Canary, but of the Atom and Katana as well. I think Rila Fukushima and Brandon Routh have done fine jobs bringing those characters to life. Adding Katana to Oliver Queen's story totally makes sense, and Ray Palmer adds an unusual kind of charm to the show.

JI: One of my few regrets from my time as a Batman editor was not getting a chance to tackle the Outsiders, the superhero team Batman financed, of which Katana was a member.

She was and may still be one of my favorite DC Comics characters, and if they bring the mythology of the comic book version of Katana to the Arrow series, that would take the show into a whole new territory with ancient mysticism. Yes, that kind of feel is touched upon with Ra's al Ghul, but Katana has an interesting origin, and she does have a husband who may find his way to an early grave, right?

I could see the full story behind Katana's sword, the Soultaker, playing out in future episodes of Arrow, and fans of the comic book version of the character know exactly what I mean.

 [Katana]

NF: Speaking of Ra's, you're a bit of a fan of his, am I right? What's your opinion on how Arrow has handled the Demon's Head?

JI: Clearly, you've seen my Facebook posts!

Dennis O'Neil, former Batman Group Editor and my boss/mentor while I worked for the Batman office, came up with the Ra's al Ghul character (with Neal Adams as co-creator), and I have to say the world just makes me get that character's ethos more and more. So in that way at the very least, yes, I am a fan.

I was totally sold on the Liam Neeson version of the character from Batman Begins, so when I first heard Ra's al Ghul was going to be recast for Arrow, I didn't want to care about it. But after you've watched the Arrow midseason cliffhanger episode "The Climb", you can't help but accept actor Matt Nable as the character.

The characterization is spot-on so far. Interestingly enough, in the Birds of Prey comic book, Ra's al Ghul was quite taken with Black Canary and tried to court her to help continue his reign, in authority and intimately.

Also in regards to the House of al Ghul, I can't wait to see how Nyssa will react to seeing Laurel operating as the Canary, seeing as how Laurel's sister Sarah, the first Canary, was Nyssa's great love.

 [Ra's al Ghul]

NF: It should be interesting! Thanks for taking the time to chat Joe.

Joseph P. Illidge is the co-founder of Verge Entertainment, where he is Head Writer, and a columnist at Comic Book Resources. Follow him on Twitter @JosephPIllidge

Nikolai Fomich is a writer and college teacher in Philadelphia. Follow him on Twitter @brokenquiver

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