Posted in: Comics, Marvel Comics, Spider-Man, Venom | Tagged: David Michelinie, erik larsen, fanboy rampage, marvel, todd mcfarlane, venom

Fanboy Rampage: David Michelinie Vs Erik Larsen Over Venom Creation

Published Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:58:12 -0500

by Rich Johnston

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David Michelinie is the co-creator of Venom, he was writing the Spider-Man comic books when he came up with the idea of someone else becoming a host for Spider-Man's sentient alien black costume. But the journey from that moment to the first appearance of Venom, drawn by Todd McFarlane in Amazing Spider-Man #300 was a twisty-turny one. Todd McFarlane is often given greater credit for Venom, and sometimes takes it himself, and with the release of the new film, David Michelinie wanted to put the record straight, again, on Facebook. He wrote;

sigh< I guess we'll be faced with this recurring disagreement every time a new movie featuring Venom arrives. Last time, I posted a lengthy thesis explaining my viewpoint and opinions, the many definitions of "creator" and "creation", then ended by saying that, in an effort to decrease misunderstandings, I was going to henceforth try to refer to myself as having "originated" Venom, rather than use the "C" word. Didn't work. So this time around I'm going to pare it down. I'm simply going to ask two questions, and then provide the only two answers that can be provably true.

Question #1: If Todd McFarlane had never been born, would Venom still exist?
Answer: Yes. Because someone else would have drawn him.
Question #2: If David Michelinie had never been born, would Venom still exist?
Answer: No.

It's as simple as that. Argue amongst yourselves if you wish, but I've had my say. I'm done.

The internet needs no such encouragement. And so Erik Larsen, who took over art duties on Amazing Spider-Man after Todd McFarlane and developed the Venom character further with Michelenie, including pointed and monstrous teeth, saliva, and a prehensile tongue, disagreed with his former writer, saying;

I vehemently disagree. If credit goes to the person who started with a blank page–then credit for Venom should go to whoever dreamed up that alien Spider-Man costume designed by Mike Zeck and Rick Leonardi. You didn't start with a blank page–you started with an instruction manual. Todd McFarlane added a stringy, gooey transformation process, he gave Venom claws, he made Venom's appearance progressively more monstrous, with a bigger jaw and sharper teeth, and he visualized Eddie Brock from the ground up.

Would Venom exist without Todd? Not the one we know of.
Would Venom exist without David? Not the one we know of.

But once there was an alien costume in existence, which was spurned by Peter Parker–it was inevitable that SOMEBODY would don that costume and since evil twins are such a storytelling staple–a character like Venom was pretty much inevitable. Hell, Gregory Wright mentioned in this thread that the IDEA of the black costume being turned into a villain came from Todd! So, you put a disgruntled reporter in a discarded Spider-Man outfit. You couldn't even be bothered to pick a different profession, for cryin' out loud. Brock's motivation was so weak–that it was ditched in the movie iteration.

You didn't create the costume. You didn't create his powers. And now you're bellyaching because you have to share the credit with a guy who suggested turning the black suit into a villain and helped make Venom wildly popular? Give me a break. Venom became huge despite your efforts–not because of them! That visual MADE Venom! And you fought that every step of the way! You put notes in the plots NOT to make Venom look too monstrous because you claimed fans were more interested in the man beneath the mask! I was scolded for giving Venom a tongue! So, pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the poor mistreated, misunderstood, auteur David Micheline.

And just before he blocked him, David Michelinie replied;

Ya know, Erik, I'm not going to get into a battle of words with you. There's nothing I could possibly say that would change your mind. You're like an ardent Trump follower: you won't believe anything that challenges your viewpoint or opinions. You've shown many times in the past, through posts, interviews, and letters to publications, that you don't let little things like facts or the truth sway you from what you WANT to believe. However, I will point out some of the errors in the misinformation you offer in your post.

First, you say that Mike Zeck and Rick Leonardi should get credit for creating Venom. And they should get credit–for designing a new costume for SPIDER-MAN. You then parody my comments by saying, "Would Venom exist without Todd? Not the one we know of." True. And please note that I have never, in public or private, said one word against Todd's talent or his contributions to Venom's popularity. But then you say, "Would Venom exist without David? Not the one we know of." That's not quite accurate. There wouldn't BE a "one we know of" because there wouldn't be a Venom at all.

Next you refer to Greg Wright's post where he mentions that Todd said he had been the first to pose the idea of using the symbiote costume for a villain. This is another case of your giving Todd credit for something that wasn't quite his. I don't know the exact date that Todd was assigned to Amazing Spider-Man, but it was well after my jump to Amazing after writing Web, and his first ASM story appeared in Amazing Spider-Man #298, dated March, 1988. Okay, here's where the facts come in: in Web Of Spider-Man #18, dated September, 1986, There's a sequence where Peter Parker is pushed in front of a subway train, barely escapes, and is afterwards thoroughly creeped out because his spider-sense didn't warn him. That was because the mysterious attacker was wearing the symbiote costume, and it was a teaser sequence to start introducing what would have become Venom. (The idea of a dangerous foe who didn't trip the spider-sense was the first nugget that got me thinking about the character that became Venom.) There was another teaser that occurred in Web, in a later issue that I plotted but someone else scripted. But the important one is issue #18. The date on my copy of the plot says I turned it in on May 8, 1986. Now, you tell me: how could Todd have been the first one to pose the IDEA of using the symbiote as a villain if I had already been developing such a character at least year before he (and me, for that matter) were ever assigned to Amazing Spider-Man? (I'm sure you'll have an answer, since reality doesn't seem to play much of a part in your arguments.)//And then you berate me for bellyaching about sharing credit with "a guy who suggested turning the black suit into a villain". Maybe you should hire someone to factcheck your arguments before you post them.

And so, my Eddie Brock motivation was so weak "that it was ditched in the movie iteration"? Really? How about it was ditched in the movie iteration because in the comics (did you ever actually read any of them?) the original motivation was tied directly to Spider-Man, which Sony couldn't use at the time. And if the current "buddies" angle is something you think is original, and the silly humor in the latest version is actually funny, well…more power to you.

That's it. I give up. I could go on and on (go ahead, make a snarky crack about that line–I know you want to) but it wouldn't do any good. Your mind is obviously so set that trying to introduce it to veracity would be like forcing an infant's mouth open to feed it stewed prunes. So this is it for me; I won't waste any more of my time responding to unfounded blathering. I'm not going to take the coward's path by blocking you from this page, so feel free to rant all you want. I've got better things to do.

The Amazing Spider-Man By Michelinie & Mcfarlane Omnibus that collects those early Venom adventures recently came back into print…

Fanboy Rampage was a blog by Graeme "Graham" McMillan dedicated to the funniest, most ludicrous and most inappropriate comic book back-and-forths online. McMillan has moved on now, becoming a proper journalist for the likes of The Hollywood Reporter and Wired but he gave permission to Bleeding Cool to revive his great creation.

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