Posted in: Comics, DC Comics, Marvel Comics | Tagged: dc comics, haek and dove, mike carlin, rob liefeld

Rob Liefeld Vs. Mike Carlin Over Hawk & Dove From 1988

Published Sat, 03 Sep 2022 05:57:11 -0500

Rob Liefeld got his big break in comics drawing the Hawk & Dove mini-series for DC Comics in 1988, before becoming a superstar on New Mutants and then X-Force at Marvel Comics, which then saw him found Image Comics, creating Youngblood, Brigade, Supreme, Prophet and more. But Hawk & Dove was a little mired in creative issues and yesterday Rob Liefeld posted the original artwork for Hawk & Dove #5 on Facebook, which he drew as a landscape comic. But it seems not everyone at DC Comics was happy with that. Liefeld posted;

"HAWK & DOVE as you were intended to see it. Following the lead of Doom Patrol's venture into the sideways Chaos Dimension only months prior to this, I depicted Hawk & Dove's descent into the same portal. DC was supposed to be pursuing more consistency, post-Crisis. I was 21, rounding the bases on this story, the assistant Editor was left in charge for the entire duration of this issue as the idiot Editor spent months on set of the syndicated Superboy show in Florida."

The editor on the book was Mike Carlin. Rob isn't mentioning their names, but they are right there on the credits, Mike Carlin was an editor at Marvel Comics from 1982 to 1986, moved to DC Comics as Editor where he was promoted to VP Executive Editor, and is currently Warner Bros. DC Creative Director of Animation. The assistant editor was Renee Witterstaetter who currently works as Arthur Suydam's agent. Rob continues the assassination.

"He was enamored with Hollywood and wanted to be a player in the worst possible way. Pathetic. Upon his return he called me and screamed & cursed at me that this was a betrayal and ordered me to change it all back. He said I had "SABOTAGED" the project. I'd been paid in full, my commitment to the book was complete and every issue of the mini-series shipped on time, and I was already at Marvel beginning my tenure in the X-Men office. This Bozo then yelled at me for taking work at Marvel, said they were going to offer me work on a Hawk & Dove regular series. Of course! H&D hadn't had a successful comic in 20 years and suddenly the book becomes a fan favorite and I couldn't have been happier, but this editor was the single most oppressive force I ever encountered in comic books ever in my 37 year career. He always told he I hadn't "paid my dues" I had too much success too soon. Right. Anyways, he ordered that these pages be restored to a vertical approach, even as they were specifically designed to be told sideways, and the end result has always been a train wreck to behold. Shameful pursuit by a power hungry jerk who would then kill Superman in order to keep up with Image Comics which had become the number two company behind Marvel with just 7 comic books. This very unpleasant person then stood about two yards away from my table at San Diego they year I was an honorary guest and told Todd Nauck and Norm Rapmund, two guys I gave their big breaks to, that it was sad that I never amounted to anything. I was awarded my lifetime achievement award by Comic Con the next afternoon. Karma. And in 1991, I did a Spider-Man/X-Force crossover and produced a sideways issue of X-Force. The event was called SABOTAGE."

He did.

In further comments, Rob Liefeld adds;

"it was a spiteful and ridiculously borderline insane statement to make within earshot of me. Purposely, I believe, to incite a reaction. And here I am, 10 years later, reacting."

Gregory Wright former DC and Marvel editor, replied

" The issue was that young Rob didn't get approval from the editor in charge. I'll admit that I would not have been happy if one of my creators did that without permission at the time, but I would have likely gone along with it after getting an explanation. And yeah…refitting it must have been a giant pain that likely just wound up getting bad press. I don't recall it being an issue at Marvel when Rob and Todd did their crossover."

Rob Liefeld replied

"oh Greg, Renae was empowered as editor the month he was gone and she cleared it. Please don't run a judgement without all the details. I had approval. Dude is and always be a clown show."

There is more Mike Carlin discussion from others in the thread, but I get the feeling that's going to be a whole other article. Mike Carlin did not respond to requests for comment (probably very wise). For now, let's compare the artwork Rob Liefeld posted as to how it finally saw print. Watch how that half face of Kestrel in the final panel on the first double-page spread is mirrored to create a full face…