Posted in: Comics | Tagged: Dina Babbitt, Dr Rafael Medoff, Holocaust Comics, neal adams, NYCC

Neal Adams Speaks Out –Conversations with Neal Adams and Dr. Rafael Medoff Part II

Published Wed, 16 Oct 2013 18:30:18 -0500

Elizabeth Heyman writes for Bleeding Cool:

This is a continuation of an interview with comic legend Neal Adams and his academic partner Dr Rafael Medoff of the Wyman Institute about a new documentary titled They Spoke Out which includes motion comics as well as historical photographs and videos. It tells five different stories of Americans who fought back in the Holocaust and the creators made it with the intention of changing the way World War II is discussed in schools.

BC: So all of your work on the Holocaust can also be used to talk about modern genocides?

Medoff: That's the hope really. Because in the end why are we talking about the Holocaust? History is important, but the most important thing about it is that the bad part isn't repeated. We want today's young people who are going to be tomorrow's leaders to not make the same mistakes previous generations made. When there's genocide in our time we don't want people standing idly by the way too many people stood by in the 1940s. That's ultimately the goal: teach lessons of the Holocaust but the first lesson is to care and to try to make a difference and to do something and to speak out. That's why it's called They Spoke Out. Hopefully, in this generation that's what we'll get because when they learn about the 40s they'll learn about what went wrong and how maybe this generation can do a better job.

There shouldn't have been a Darfur. Sixty years after the Holocaust we should not have to be talking about Rowanda and Darfur. It's almost inconceivable that that could happen again and yet here we are.

BC: Well (to Neal) this isn't your first time writing about social issues and using comics to talk about social issues. Green Lantern Green Arrow was revolutionary for comics. How do you measure success when you try to inform people with comics, especially considering the Babbitt paintings haven't been given back?

Adams: Well when we get the paintings back which we intend to do. I'm not a person that has a lot of opinions. In fact, I don't have any opinions. I'm like a self-aiming arrow. I see shit and I go and I do something about it because I don't have the patience to wait for others to do something about it or all the discussion. I'm not interested in that. [Medoff] brought this problem to me. I didn't know anything about it but I noticed he wrote it and I could see comic book pages and that would be the best way to tell the story. And when I did the comic, the New York Times liked it, all these other publications liked it, Marvel allowed us to publish it in the back of one of their books. DC did not which I consider to be stupid and wrong. Then Disney picked it up and then it began to leave my hands and I had done this thing and we had done it together and then it started to leave my hands and then it came back into my hands to do the other thing which is a newer thing, a better thing and now all we care about is doing more.

I'm not interested in what people think. I'm not interest in if the job is done because the job is never done. There's all kinds of crap going on that you need to do something about. I'm interested in spending my time doing things that help things get better. My only purpose is enlightened self-interest because I'm interested in living in a better world so anything I can do to make the world better I do it. I don't question it, I don't have debates about it, I'm not interested in the discussion. It's just that it's wrong, I'm going to do something about it. That's all his relationship with me has ever been (gestures towards Medoff). Right? You got a script here let's make it into a comic book and get it out there. I'm not interested making money on it because I can make money drawing Batman. So people say to me 'Oh you're giving it away for free isn't that nice and altruistic!' but no it's not altruistic it's what you should do because it's what's going to make a bigger difference. You don't put a price tag on that. I have price tags on all kinds of stuff. It's a world better thing. I actually sometimes get money from people to do things that make more sense but I don't let their opinions get in the way of it. When we were doing Green Lantern Green Arrow, nobody came to us and said 'are you sure you want to do that?' because the editor had no idea what we were doing. We insulted the Vice President of the United States and they didn't know until the Governor of Florida sent them a letter saying they were going to discontinue the comics from DC in Florida.

BC: So you were really able to put it out without them knowing?

Adams: Yeah because they're stupid. Maybe they know book keeping but they don't know anything about comic books. So we did the stuff and then suddenly at the end, the executive at DC comics came up to me and said look at this letter from the Governor of Florida. He's going to discontinue the comic books if we ever insult the Vice President again. So I said, "Sure we won't insult him again." We already did! Why show me the letter? It insulted not only the Vice President but we made this ugly little girl look like Richard Nixon. But oh the governor of Florida didn't notice that? So what you do is if you're out there, for example, it's a ploy to do what we did and offer it for free. If you offer it for free no one can say, "Hey maybe you should change this," or "I object to that." When you give it out for free they go "Oh! Free! I want to use that!" When the New York Times did it they put like two pages in and then on the internet they ran the whole strip. I can see Disney go "Oh! We can get this and we can make a comic for free! They didn't know the cost would come in later. They go "Hey this is good medium here. Let's talk to this guy and see if we can do this," and for very, very low reasonable money they got five products and if they're successful with them and they get them into schools and it reflects well on them they'll do more. Sometimes that's the smart way to do it. Give it to them for free. Tell them they can have Neal Adams for free. (Laughs) But it's not really free!

BC: Has there been any progress in getting Dina Babbitt's paintings back?

Medoff: Well Dina shortly before she passed away offered a series of compromises. At one point she was offering that she would only receive half the paintings. Then finally, as I understand, she was asking for just one painting back. There's one in particular that was very special to her because she formed a particular close bond with the woman she was painting.

BC: This was one of the Gypsy portraits?

Medoff: Yes this was one of the gypsy portraits but there was one in particular that she was particularly close to –Celine and she wanted that one more than any others but even then the museum wouldn't compromise. So when you ask has there been any progress, well, it's hard to measure progress because their position has not budged one inch since the beginning. In their correspondence with us and with their correspondence with Neal, they have never been willing to give even one painting. So in a sense there has been no progress but the family will keep up the struggle I'm sure though indefinitely. Whether some future leader of the museum might be more progressive minded or more flexible, well, that's our hope. Clearly the current leadership has dug in their heels. Or what could happen is that the United States government will intervene. Remember, Congress unanimously passed a resolution calling on the Polish government to instruct the museum to return the paintings. So it is the unanimous opinion of the United States Congress that the paintings should come back. Maybe this president or a future president will take some action it's hard to say.

BC: So yes this is an educational cause but why should the art world get behind it as well?

Medoff: Because it's a chance to do something more meaningful than just entertain. Entertainment is important and that is ultimately what the whole comic book industry is built on but individual comic book creators are human beings with a natural desire to do something more meaningful and more important in addition to their entertainment work with something more meaningful and important than just that. Here's a chance to actually influence young people and make a better world. In a sense there's nothing nobler than that. So we hope to give comics creators an opportunity to do something that is much bigger than the individuals.

BC: And you (to Neal) why should the art world get behi—

Adams: I couldn't give a crap. I really couldn't give a crap.

Medoff: Oh is that a different answer than mine (laughs).

Adams: I don't care what the art world thinks. I have no interest in any of that stuff. I draw comic books and every once in a while I'm given the chance to do something that changes things. You do it and you throw it out there and you hope that it'll work and sometimes it doesn't but we have a responsibility as human beings for our generation and future generations to do this stuff. I don't consider it altruistic in any. I consider it incredibly selfish and self-serving to do this stuff. What will happen is that my kid and my grandkid will grow up in a better world. It's great so we fought prejudice in comics with the first Black superhero which was John Stewart, Green Lantern. When I hear responses to it and I hear how it works and how they announced the Green Lantern movie and how Hal Jordan was going to be the Green Lantern and all the kids in America just went "Who the hell is Hal Jordan? John Stewart is Green Lantern," because millions of kids watched it on television. So he becomes the Green Lantern all kids see and only a 100,000 read about Hal Jordan and the other idiots. Those millions of kids decided who Green Lantern is and he happens to be Black. American decided our president is going to be Black, not because he was Black but because he's better material for president. That's how the world supposed to work. So if you get an opportunity to put that plug in do it.

My mother told me when I was very little if you do something for somebody else because you expect to be thanked, don't do it. Just do it because you think it's right. (Gestures to Medoff) He's got ideals and I appreciate that but he does it because he's compelled to do it. You know he can say all he wants but he's got this driving force and if you ask him he'll come up with words. It's all bullshit. He does it because he's compelled to do it and he wouldn't have it any other way. That's the way it is with folks.

BC: Any else we should know about this project?

Adams: Everyone get out and see those videos. Tell them where they are and how you can find them and how you can get them. If you don't see those videos you're disappointing the whole human race. No offense but if you want to disappoint the whole human race than fine go ahead and do that, but those videos are part of our history and ought to be watched and pressure should be put on Disney Educational System to get them out there and if there are people out there that don't think so screw them there just not being good people.

Medoff: Well said.

All episodes featured on the DVD as well as additional information are available to watch on TheySpokeOut.com

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